Thursday, January 19, 2006

Answering Bruce786

It's late and I'm tired, but I'll try to answer Bruce786's comments to my post, "War on Islam? Bah! Humbug!"

First, Bruce786 missed the point of my post. I wasn't trying to give a theological review of Islam as he seemed to think, given the nature of his way too long comments. Rather, I was just pointing out the stupidity of the claim that there's a war on Islam by the West, and I think I did a pretty good job of doing that. What you believe about the truth or falsehood of Islam is irrevelant to deciding whether or not there's a war being waged against it. I'm not a churchgoer, but I believe there's a cultural cold war being waged against Christianity in America. Other non-Christians, inlcuding Jews and at least one pro-choice, feminist, lesbian, feel the same way. Obviously, you don't have to believe in Christianity to see that it's under assault in modern America. Likewise, you don't have to believe or disbelieve in Islam to determine if there's a war on it or not. You just have to look at the evidence, and it says there's no war on Islam.

I didn't deny that certain portions of the international Muslim population are under duress from non-Muslims. I just pointed out that what's happening to Muslims in the West Bank, for instance, doesn't stop the rest of the Muslim world from being Muslim. After all, when someone says there's a war on Islam, the implication is that Muslims are being attacked, persecuted, and killed worldwide for no other reason than for being Muslim, and that the Islamic faith is being repressed by state force, and that's just not true. Muslims aren't being killed or persecuted in America or anywhere else in the West. On the contrary, they have total religious freedom protected not only by constitutional law but also by the socio-political phenomenom of political correctness, which makes criticizing Muslims racist. Thus, in some ways, Muslims in the West have more rights than native Westerners, and certainly more rights than non-Muslims have in the Muslim world. Apparently, certain Muslims and their sympathizers don't want such facts to be heard.

As for Burce786's theological comments, I admit my eyes glazed over while trying to read them. I just can't take seriously someone who says that Abraham, Moses, and Jesus were Muslims when they lived thousands of years before Muhammad. I've heard this claim before. If I'm not mistaken, it's actually made in the Koran itself, which helps explains why I don't take it seriously. I suppose the reasoning is that since "Islam" means "submission", and Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and other Biblical figures submitted to God, they were "Muslims", i.e. "those who submit". Yeah, right. The only way Abraham, Moses, Jesus and all the rest were Muslims is in the generic sense, with a little "m". They submitted to God, not to Islam.

I suspect there might also be a more sinister element to this idea. Muslims, at least the dangerous ones, believe that any piece of land that comes under Islamic domination must remain Islamic forever. If it falls into non-Muslim hands it must be "liberated" in a jihad. So, if you can claim that all of the world's pre-Islamic, monotheistic, prophets were really Muslims you've got a divine right to all the land they lived and preached in. And if you can claim that Islam goes all the way back to Adam and Eve, then you've got a divine right to the whole world! Neat, huh? Imperialism by divine decree. It sure explains why Muslims stormed into Persia, Syria, India, Judea, Egypt, North Africa, Spain, and France centuries before anyone in any of those places raised a hand in anger against them.

Well, I think I've answered you, Bruce786. I've probably pissed you off a bit, too. I can live with that. In America we can speak our minds without anyone issuing a fatwa to kill us. Thank God the Pilgrims were Christians.


Izrafil said...

So thank God for Christians eh!

While Christian Missionaries preach of peace, love and harmony, their most effective tool for conversions is violence and they will not hesitate to use it. There are hundreds of violent attacks by Christian Missionaries every year. Most of these attacks can be categorized into the following:

1. Divide & Convert (Tahiti) – One of the most efficient way and brutal ways that Missionaries have converted large amounts of people is by dividing and conquering. Missionaries will persuade a leader of a tribe that they will arm him and allow him to defeat a rival tribal if he converts to Christianity. After the conquering and pillaging of the opposing tribe, under the rule of the converted leader, both tribes convert to Christianity. One classical example occurred is the story of how the South Pacific was converted:

In 1797, thirty years after the discovery of Tahiti by Wallis, the first missionaries landed on the island. The missionaries, sent by the London Missionary Society, tried for seven years to convert the natives but were unable to make any headway.

It was then that they discovered, as if by miracle, the proper method of converting the Tahitians. They discovered that the local chief, Pomare, liked alcohol (distilled by the missionaries) so much that he became an alcoholic. Addicted to the distilled spirit (perhaps the "holy" spirit), Pomare agreed to back the missionaries in their work of conversion. Pomare, supplied with western firearms, easily subdued his native opponents. Upon his victory over his rivals, the whole island was forcibly converted in one day.

Then the process of inculcating "Christian virtues" began. Persistent unbelievers, those who refused to be converted, were executed. Singing was banned (except for hymns) and all forms of adornment, flowers or tattoo were disallowed. Of course, surfing and dancing were not permitted as well. The punishment for breaking any of these rules included, among others, being sentenced to hard labor.

Within thirty years of missionary control, the population of Tahiti fell from an initial estimate of 20,000 to 6,000. On another island, Raiatea, a man who was able to forecast the weather by studying the behavior of fish was executed for witchcraft. The missionaries continued this tactic from island to island and managed to convert the whole South Pacific.

Though this method was used centuries ago, it is still a commonly used tactic used by Christian Missionaries in tribal areas of Asia and Africa.

2. Terrorist Organizations (North-East India) – These relatively small armed tribal groups are eventually nurtured by Missionaries into violent and sadistic terrorist groups:

On December 4th, 2000, Christians converts under the direction of Missionaries, desecrated an ashram (Hindu religious retreat) set up by murdered Hindu leader Shanti Kumar Tripura. . They desecrated Hindu idols and destroyed photos of the slain religious leader revered by both Hindu tribals and Bengalis. The Christian converts also raped two female devotees and brutally attacked two men who had come to the ashram for puja (religious rituals).

The next day, Christian converts brutally desecrated another ashram at Jirania Khola and forced the inmates to stop all Hindu rituals and practices at gunpoint. A group of seven armed converted Christian terrorists barged into the ashram and threatened the 150 Hindus with dire consequences if they continued to perform Hindu rites at the ashram. The terrorists fled only after a large group of locals rushed to the ashram.

Due to threats by violent Missionaries and their Christian converts, altogether 11 ashrams, schools and orphanages set up by the murdered Hindu leader in various parts of the state have been forcibly closed down by the Christian fundamentalist terrorist organization known as “National Liberation Front of Tripura” (NLFT).

In early October the same Christian fundamentalists had issued a diktat ordering the indigenous tribal Hindus to stay away from Durga Puja celebrations (Hindu Festival) and warned that any tribal members seen taking part in the festival would be instantly killed. In its official public statement, the NLFT said it wanted all tribals in Tripura to become Christians. They also stated that salvation for Tripura lies only in Christianity and would eliminate anyone who dared to come in the way of their plans to forcibly convert all of Tripura to Christianity.

NFLT is still an active and powerful terrorist organization that operates in Northeast India. They have converted many Hindus and tribals forcibly at gunpoint, and are involved in rapes, and assassinations. They continue to receive arms as well as moral and financial support from Western Christian organizations and Missionaries.

3. Manhunts (South America) - Another method, aptly called "manhunt", involves the missionaries going out, sometimes in motorized vehicles, hunting for natives to integrate them into reservations set up for missionary work. The New Tribes Mission (NTM), for instance, went on such a manhunt in Paraguay. Five missionized natives were killed in one such manhunt. Those unconverted natives were taken to the NTM camp in Campo Loro. Within a short while, according to Survival International, all had died of new diseases they had no immunity to. Stung by criticism, the best reply the NTM 's Director in Paraguay could muster was: "We don't go after people anymore. We just provide transport."

In another such "manhunt" in 1979, also in Paraguay, one of the frightened natives fell down from a tree and broke her leg. (Her right breast had already been shot off by a previous encounter with the missionaries.) She was compelled, with her broken leg, to walk back to the mission camp. She subsequently died.

4. Kidnappings - In conjunction with the "manhunt", converted natives are trained by the missionaries to carry guns. The "newly contacted" natives are then rounded off to the mission camp. One American organization, Cultural Survival, reported in 1986 that natives in the NTM camp in Paraguay kidnapped and forced into missionary schools.

5. Forced Captivity – In one such Missionary camp, a witness described the situation of the kidnapped captives:

”I … saw two old ladies lying on some rags on the ground in the last stages of emaciation and clearly on the verge of death. One was unconscious, the second in what was evidently a state of catalepsy...In the second hut lay another woman, also in a desperate condition and with untreated wounds on her legs. A small, naked, tearful boy sat at her side...The three women and the boy had been taken in a recent forest roundup, the third woman having being shot in the side while attempting to escape.”

6. Genocide (Brazil) – There are many accounts of genocide committed by Missionaries but they rarely reported in Christian media because of the perverse nature of the crime and because they are usually committed against remote tribals. One of the most horrific massacres was of Brazilian tribals by the grossly misnamed Indian Protection Service, which Christian Missionaries supported and often assisted in killings.

In just a few years, the following tribes population was reduced due to Missionary genocide:

• Munducurus tribe: reduced from 19,000 to 1,200
• Guaranis tribe: reduced from 5,000 to 200
• Cajaras tribe: from 4,000 to 400
• Cintas Largas: from 10,000 to 500
• Tapaiunas: completely extirpated
• Other tribes were reduced to only a few (one or two!) individuals and some by only a single family.

The Missionaries employed some of the following methods in their killings:

• The Cintas Largas were attacked by dropping dynamites from airplanes.
• The Maxacalis were given alcohol and then shot down when they became drunk.
• The Nhambiquera were killed in huge numbers by machine gun fire.
• Two Patachos tribes were exterminated by giving the unsuspecting Indians smallpox injections.
• Some of the Indians were murdered by presenting them with food laced with arsenic and formicides.
• One missionary persuaded 600 Ticuna Indians that the end of the world is taking place and they will only be safe on a ranch. On that ranch the Indians were made slaves and tortured.
• The Bororos tribe was banned from performing customary religious rites on the dead. Deprived of their cultural identity, the Bororos, instead of converting, committed suicide on by one, until the tribe was extinct.

7. Intentional Denial of Medicines- In another New Tribes Mission (NTM) mission camp, many of the natives either died from starvation or from diseases transmitted by the missionaries for which they had no immunity against. In one such mission camp in Paraguay, the German anthropologist, Dr. Mark Munzel, reported that food and medicine were deliberately withheld by the missionaries. From a total of 277 natives in April 1972 only 202 survivors were left three months later. A US congressional report confirmed that 49% of the camp population had vanished!

In Bolivia, William Pencille, of the South American Missionary Society, was called in to help when white ranchers moving into the tribal areas came upon the Ayoreos. Pencille persuaded these natives to stop resisting the encroachment of the cattlemen and to settle on a patch of barren land beside a railroad tract. The natives, having no resistance to common diseases of the "modern" man, began to die. Throughout all this Pencille had the means to save the lives of these people. He had access to many modes of transport, including an airplane, and to funds which could easily have been used to buy medicines for them. Yet this is what he said: "It's better they should die. Then I baptize them (on the point of death) and they go straight to heaven."

The above is only a small sampling of the atrocities that have been committed by Missionaries. It can be seen that Missionaries do not hesitate rape, torture, enslave and murder in order to forcibly spread Christianity. Though all these events occurred in the past, some occurred as recently as only a few years ago, and they still continue today on an even larger scale unreported by Western media

izrafil said...

1. Sodomy - On November 11, 2000 Indian police arrested David Berry, a 51 year old British national for brutally sodomizing and perpetrating savage sexual abuse on at least 11 minor Hindu boys in the holy temple town of Puri, Orissa. Berry was assisted in his heinous crimes by Bijoy Behera, a local schoolteacher and recent convert to Christianity. The police were forced to arrest the two Christians following a complaint lodged by a victim's father, Shree Banamali Senapati. Initially despite his lodging of the complaint, the police dismissed the case and refused to arrest the perpetrators, but were forced to act when an angry mob from the town besieged them and threatened dire consequences if the guilty were not punished. Shree Senapati was in tears as he related how Berry had sodomized his traumatized 12-year-old son at least eight times in his hotel room and elsewhere. The boy related to the police that Berry had forced him to have oral sex and kept him a virtual prisoner in the hotel room for hours. He also revealed that the Briton had sodomized at least 10 other school children, all below the ages of 12. The children were so traumatized by Berry's threats and Behera's beatings that they did not dare to confess to the horrors visited upon them until young master Senapati could take no more and broke down to his father.

izrafil said...

3. Rape – In January 2002, American Missionary Reverend Joseph Cooper and Pastor Sam Benson were expelled from India after the raping a young Hindu girl. Both currently walk free and Cooper is a preacher in Connecticut. Western Media only reported how Hindus had retaliated against Cooper but did not mention that he incited locals by saying Lord Krishna "spreads AIDS". American Pastor Benson Sam and his wife Sally also were found guilty of abduction and rape of a minor girl. The poor orphan girl named Laly had allegedly been sexually abused and harassed for four months at the Bible Christian Centre, which had resulted in the issue of non-bailable warrants against Sam Benson and his son.

Anonymous said...

you pitiful deluded american idiot.

Theway2k said...

These Mohammedans criticizing you are attempting to intimidate you. Here is the fact: Christian Holy Scripture (The Real Truth) in the New Testament is all about Grace, Mercy and the Love of God at all costs. Christians have performed atrocities and falsely pointed to Christ or in the name of Christianity, but that is NOT what ministers to humanity. On the otherhand, Mohammedans (I refuse to conform to what they call their cult)follow their scripture which is VIOLENCE oriented. The Koran encourages Murder, lieing, cheating and mayhem if it is done to the non-Mohammedans (kafir to them, infidel closest translation to Christians). And trust me if we measure atrocity for atrocity the Mohammedans win. Mohammedans in the Olympics of atrocity hands down.

By the way the Mohammedans have been visiting me with their delusions too. Checkout my blog at to see what they have been saying to me.

PoorGrrl said...

Thanks for the support, theway2k! I checked out your blog and love it! I'm adding it to my link list.


The Winston Churchill quote was awesome! I'm putting it on my blog, too.

Christopher said...

Bruce786 is a spamming robot. I am trying to track it down to get it shut down. You might consider moderated comments. I would definitely discourage you from spending the time to respond, as it only encourages others, like it.

Note the long, cut and paste lecture from other commenters on your site. I receive identical texts.

Lest you think I am being overly harsh, the last comment to my site from it began with this sentence: "This is message being sent to thousands of sites by a robot."

The robot apparently latches on to keywords, and has managed to defeat the word verification, somehow.

Bujutsu Blogger said...

I was struck by Bruce786 as well...he or it seems to be making the rounds...

I told him I would respond to comments if they were narrowly targeted rather than being a large block of spam...